Talk:Harvard University

Inclusion of cheating scandal in See Also

Editor @ElKevbo believes that the article 2012 Harvard cheating scandal should be included in the See Also section of this page. I believe that this is WP:UNDUE, given that gravity and relevance of the cheating scandal in regard to the University's 388 year-old history is not significant in any way. There are many other events that occurred at Harvard, such as the Harvard–Yale Regatta, Harvard Psilocybin Project, Murder of Trang Phuong Ho and the Parkman–Webster murder case. Additionally, the university has been directly involved in many controversies over the years, such as Students for Fair Admissions v. Harvard and Free Harvard, Fair Harvard. If these aren't linked to in the page, the cheating scandal should not be either. Dawkin Verbier (talk) 13:35, 3 January 2024 (UTC)

Include in See Also because: 1. the cheating was "unprecedented in its scope and magnitude". 2. The Crimson said it was news story most important to Harvard in 2012. 3. Plagiarism and academic dishonesty are major issues for Harvard since Prof. Gay stepped down. 4. The 2012 case reflected larger issues of: athletes cheating, grade inflation, and student networks. This is very relevant for gaining a better picture of Harvard University as a major university. --Melchior2006 (talk) 07:57, 4 January 2024 (UTC)

It has been over ten years since the incident. At what point would you say that the incident no longer is relevant for gaining a better picture of Harvard? Dawkin Verbier (talk) 10:58, 4 January 2024 (UTC)

Its age doesn’t make it less relevant. Seasider53 (talk) 11:03, 4 January 2024 (UTC)

Even if it's a hundred years old? Then shouldn't we include, as @EEng mentions, the Secret Court of 1920? Dawkin Verbier (talk) 14:20, 12 January 2024 (UTC)

• EXclude. As I pointed out in another topic on this discussion page, there was a similar cheating scandal at Yale of almost the same magnitude yet that is not in the Yale article. Treat the schools the same. The same goes with the addition of Gay's resignation in the history section. Stanford's former President also resigned because of issues with his research yet that is not in the Stanford article. Highlighting each and every scandal in the case of Harvard is discriminatory towards that one school when compared to wiki articles of other (similar) schools. Can't make any changes myself as the article is protected, so I can pretty much only comment as an external observer. But maybe User:EEng wants to chime in on that one too as he could make changes. 2A02:1210:2C5A:AE00:DD9D:4293:4314:8B4F (talk) 08:18, 7 January 2024 (UTC)
• One does wonder why this one thing, our of literally hundreds if not thousands of articles about Harvard (including some Very Bad Things e.g. Secret Court of 1920) needs to be highlighted. I think where this belongs is Template:Harvard University (under "College", or maybe "Misc"). EEng 15:40, 7 January 2024 (UTC)

  I can currently see a draw on this matter. Three people for inclusion (@Seasider53,@Melchior2006 and @ElKevbo) and three people against inclusion (@EEng, @Dawkin Verbier and me). What's the procedure on an include/exclude issue when there is a draw? My view is that the proposed change is the INclusion and that therefore a majority would have to vote for that in order for it to happen. Conversely, since a majority was not reached, the proposal of inclusion did not get enough votes to be included. Would be good if someone with some profound experience with wiki policies could chime in though and explain what happens when there is a draw in a discussion. 2A02:1210:2C5A:AE00:6148:4BF9:9CC8:3FF9 (talk) 20:52, 15 January 2024 (UTC)

I do not have a strong opinion on this - removal is okay with me as long as readers can follow a reasonable path to get to that article from this one. The suggestion above about adding this to the relevant template would be fine with me. ElKevbo (talk) 00:27, 16 January 2024 (UTC)

Hmm... since there now seems to be rather a tendency among users in this discussion not to include (in said section and instead shift to where @EEng suggested), can someone therefore make the corresponding edit? I can't as the article is protected and I am an IP user... 2A02:1210:2C5A:AE00:DC59:58D0:66CB:5421 (talk) 14:47, 20 January 2024 (UTC)

I will make the edit. Dawkin Verbier (talk) 06:02, 27 April 2024 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 31 July 2024

Hello, I'd like to request adding a table contain all undergraduate courses offered by Harvard. I believe this could be very helpful for those who are searching about universities and its degrees, in order to choose the best option without having to search each university's website. I'll send the same suggestion to other universities' Wikipedia page. Thank you for the comprehension! Kaoskray (talk) 18:21, 31 July 2024 (UTC)

 Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{Edit semi-protected}} template. - FlightTime (open channel) 18:26, 31 July 2024 (UTC)

I don't know the policy here, but the tables @Kaoskray: suggests seems like a good idea to me. Is this the appropriate forum to seek consensus? McYeee (talk) 21:27, 31 July 2024 (UTC)

• Terrible idea. Here's a link to the last time Harvard published its catalog as a hardcopy book [1]. It's over a thousand pages. How on earth would it help our readers if we were to transcribe all that into Wikipedia? And that's just the Faculty of Arts and Sciences. What about the schools of law, medicine, education, design, divinity, business, dentistry, and whichever ones I'm forgetting? We even have a policy on this: WP:NOTCATALOG. EEng 18:30, 3 November 2024 (UTC)

Undefined rankings reference

Marco Carrasco! A couple weeks ago you made this edit which introduced a referencing error to the article because the reference "Rankings_ARWU" is not defined. Before your edit, there were no referencing errors. Are you able to make a fix for this missing reference? -- mikeblas (talk) 23:38, 1 November 2024 (UTC)

Hello MikeBlas. Now it is fixed. Best regards. Marco Carrasco (talk) 03:55, 2 November 2024 (UTC)

Awesome. Thanks!!1! -- mikeblas (talk) 15:33, 2 November 2024 (UTC)

Edit warring to add new study to lede

@Scientist3552: Why are you edit warring to add a new reference and a claim that "Harvard’s graduates are highly represented among the most successful and influential Americans across many different categories of achievement?" You've made four reversions (one, two, three, and four), reverting three different editors who each objected to your addition. Your most recent version is:

Harvard’s graduates are highly represented among the most successful and influential Americans across many different categories of achievement spanning politics, business, finance, academia, computer science, mathematics, natural sciences, engineering, medicine, arts, literature, law, journalism, public service, and the military, making up 2.0% to 44.5% of individuals in each category. Recent research found that exceptional achievement is strongly associated with obtaining a degree from Harvard

This may be a reference worth adding to the body of the article. But it doesn't belong in the lede of the article. And it also needs to be rewritten or significantly copy edited if it's to remain anywhere in the article. ElKevbo (talk) 05:51, 26 December 2024 (UTC)

References